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If you guys have noticed, i have been active on beta, alpha and more recently back on eta, theta and zeta. A New Community is being built for Alliances that share the members of my alliances. Currently ONLY the ZETA alliance will be in this alliance, however an extention on beta, and alpha are in the works. from that we should beable to gain some experience and active userbase in which we will be able to expand to theta, eta, and other notable servers. ALL former POG alliances are welcome to Join the New Community.

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    Gun Control

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    Yazdyeys
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    Gun Control

    Post by Yazdyeys on Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:09 pm

    A Little Gun History Lesson In 1929, the Soviet Union
    established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20
    million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were
    rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------
    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to
    1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves,
    were rounded up and exterminated.
    --------------------------- Germany established gun
    control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million
    Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
    rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------
    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952,
    20 million political dissidents, unable to defend
    themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated.---------------------------- Guatemala
    established gun control in 1964.. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000
    Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
    and exterminated. ------------------------------ Uganda
    established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
    Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated. ------------------------------ Cambodia
    established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one
    million 'educated' people, unable to defend
    themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ----------------------------- Defenseless people rounded up
    and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control:
    56 million. ------------------------------ It has now been
    12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new
    law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed
    by their own government, a program costing Australia
    taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year
    results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2
    percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
    Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44
    percent)! In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with
    firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the
    law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not,
    and criminals still possess their guns! It will never happen
    here? Hah, I bet the Aussies said that too! While figures
    over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed
    robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward
    in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed
    that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic
    increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY.
    Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
    safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and
    expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian
    society of guns. The Australian experience and the other
    historical facts above prove it. You won't see this data
    on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating
    this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save
    lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely
    affect only the law-abiding citizens. Take note my fellow
    Americans, before it's too late! The next time someone
    talks in favor of gun control, please remind him of this
    history lesson. With Guns.............We Are
    'Citizens'. Without Them........We Are
    'Subjects'.. During W.W. II the Japan ese decided
    not to invade America because they knew most Americans
    were ARMED ! Note: Admiral Yamamoto who crafted the attack
    on Pearl Harbor had attended Harvard U 1919-1921 & was
    Naval Attache to the U. S. 1925-28. Most of our Navy was
    destroyed at Pearl Harbor & our Army had been deprived
    of funding & was ill prepared to defend the country. It
    was reported that when asked why Japan did not follow up
    the Pearl Harbor attack with an invasion of the U. S.
    Mainland, his reply was that he had lived in the U. S.
    & knew that almost all households had guns. If you value
    your freedom, Please spread this anti-gun control message to
    all your friends!->

    If you hear people talking about having gun control laws think of this, and remember what you learned from it. I'm sure that people might think that I'm bias, but being a cop you would think that the bias would go the other way. So that would just be one more point in favor of not having gun control laws. Very Happy
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    Greeny42
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Greeny42 on Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:35 pm

    But that's just cherry picked examples of countries where there was gun control and their leaders did something horrible. Gun control has little to do with those genocides. There are many countries where gun control works. That's just really slanted samples.
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    Bullpid
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Bullpid on Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:47 pm

    What are these "gun laws" supposed to be? From my limited understanding guns are already pretty hard to get, if you do it the legal way. And if you chose to do in in an illegal way how are laws going to help with that?


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    Yazdyeys
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Yazdyeys on Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:34 pm

    Bullpid, you hit the nail right on the head. Doing things legally should make it difficult, but not impossible. No matter what kind of laws are put in place, criminals will still get guns. Remember that the definition of a criminal is a person that does not obey the laws of the land. By their very nature gun control laws are worse than useless. For those who would obey it, it's not needed. For those who it would be needed, it wouldn't be obeyed. Australia has shown us that it would just make good people ripe targets. I'm sure that you might find some examples out there where they have worked passably well, but why should we gamble with the safety of our people. I've seen the type of people that are out there that would use these laws to be sure that their targets are defenseless. They are not pleasant. Evil or Very Mad I agree that there should be laws in place to track who has what weapons, but to prevent the ownership of them is just madness. The final argument against such laws is simple and final: Amendment 2 of the United States Constitution. cheers
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    Bullpid
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Bullpid on Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:19 pm

    I still have not heard what exactly the supposed guns laws will be. Do they want to get rid of guns completely? Do they want to limit who gets them? Do they just want to raise prices?


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    Fact
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Fact on Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:24 pm

    i would like to note, that in all "Test" cities around the United States,the ones that every citizen had firearms crime was virtually non existent , while the towns that had "gun laws" in place had an overwhelming Crime rate.

    i will be looking for a source tonight, but like everything else that is important, it has been buried by the liberal media.


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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Guest on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:25 am

    I did some research last year for a speech about guns that I gave in class. When they first started allowing the citizens in florida to have Concealed Handgun Licenses, (CHL's) [This provided that certain citizens the ability to register and to take a test allowing them to carry concealed handguns in public places], they kept track of all the crimes committed by the citizens across the state. The crimes were so few that they stopped the program that kept track of theses numbers after the first few years.

    Obama had voted for a bill that would ban the use of CHL's for all citizens except those retired police officers that might have to defend their lives. The truth is that there have been many moments in which an average citizen with a CHL has saved lives. Many want to get rid of CHL's as they think in most cases there is always a police officer 5 minutes away. Lets say that we are in a room together, about 100 of us. I have an AK-47 with 4-30 rd magazines. This means that I would have enough ammunition to kill everyone in the room. How many bullets to you think I can fire in 5 minutes?

    For those of you that do not know, the answer is all of the bullets with time to spare. That is potentially 99 people dead that the cops get to come clean up. Now if just one person out of that 100 had a CHL, it could have been a much different story. Those 99 people could have lived. With CHL's in use, you still have police officers 5 minutes away, but you also have people spread through your society that have a weapon that could cease a potentially dangerous event in less than 5 seconds.

    Some people would like to take all of our guns away. It has been said before, the law-abiding citizens to turn in their weapons while the law-less would hold on to them. With no one to stand in their way, it would be easy to rob a store. It has been said that the best way to avoid burglaries would be to put a National Rifle Association sticker on the truck in your driveway. What happens when that sticker means nothing?

    There is talk currently of raising the price of ammunition. This makes me very upset as it is meant to hurt all gun owners who go to the shooting range. I have a theory that more than 99% of the people who attend regularly at your local shooting range are not the criminals that are shooting up gas stations and doing drive-bys. So the people who do actually go out and buy more than one or two boxes of ammunition are being pinched. This is not to hurt crime. Think of it this way: You are about to go rob a gas station. How many bullets will you need? A box of 20? or a crate of 1000? This is merely to put a hurt on gun and ammo manufacturers. It is easier for politicians to tax weapons and ammunition. This is just the beginning. The minute another person doesn't have another weapon, there are less people that care. The problem is that normal everyday people who hate guns push this over on all law-abiding citizens because they merely to not understand us. It has been my mission to help educate those who would vote against letting people have the ability to own firearms.

    I think I may have said enough for now. Smile
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    Johnny H
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Johnny H on Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:47 am

    Yazdyeys wrote: For those who would obey it, it's not needed. For those who it would be needed, it wouldn't be obeyed.

    Succinct and right on the money!

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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by geologist on Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:54 pm

    For those who are interested, Unintended Consequences by John Ross (www.john-ross.net) is a great history of US gun laws through history. It's a novel, but a very well written one. First half of the book is all fictionalized first person accounts of military and personal firearms related events, as well as US gun laws as they came into existence. The second half is kinda Tom Clany-esq, and I won't spoil it for you. Wink

    It's only available in hardback, but if you enjoy history, as well as the RTKBA, pick it up, you won't regret picking it up.

    /I bought eight copies so I would have spares to give to friends.

    That all being said, here's some numbers for you. It is estimated that there are 60 million US gun owners, and about 250 million firearms here. If confiscation comes, and only 1% fails to comply, that is still 600k gunowners, and 2.5 million firearms (assuming an even break down, and it is likely that the less likely to comply types are the ones with more guns) still out there. And 600k armed people can put up a hell of a resistance...

    Yazdyeys
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Yazdyeys on Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:03 am

    I would like to mention an incident that happened some time ago in Utah. A man went into a mall establishments called Trolly Square. He started walking through shooting everybody he could find. It was discovered later that he was originally going to target another place, I think it was an LDS church but I'm not sure. What I do know for sure is that the other place had no rules about concealed weapons being brought on the premises, but Trolly Square did. Note now where the coward chose to go, not somewhere that he could possibly face a threat, but where he was unlikely to find opposition. Fortunately there was an off duty police officer in a restaurant in Trolly Square when this gunman came. The office took out his off duty weapon and stalled the gunman long enough for SWAT to arrive. That action saved an unknown number of lives. Chalk one up to keeping guns. cheers
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    tutaka702
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by tutaka702 on Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:45 am

    On November 3rd of 2008 my friend and his fiancé were cleaning up late at night enjoying feeling the first kicks of their son in his mothers womb. Around 2am her ex-husband started cutting the front door of their apartment with a chain saw. My friend ran himself and his fiancé into the back of the apartment into a hall way and used himself as a shield while the ex-husband proceeded to shoot AK47 rounds into the walls in their general direction. My friend owned a hand gun but it was worthless in the situation. Despite my friends efforts his love was shot 8 times, the baby twice. My friend died shortly after the two clips had been emptied and the coward ran off into the night. The 911 operator heard the entire event and became ill as she heard the blood muffled screams coming over the line. His fiancé miraculously survived both her love and her child which she still had to give birth to. His 3 year old son which was supposed to have been at the apartment, but just as miraculously was with his ex wife, will have to grow up fatherless.
    Since Jr. High he was an inspiration to push myself in life and in my art and the reason I recently began to delve back into it despite my hectic schedule of parenthood.
    I absolutely believe that everyone should be aloud the right to own guns unless proven otherwise. I however have not and still do not support the ownership of assault weapons. Hand guns are for protection, sport guns are just for that. Assault and machine guns are specifically for warfare and do not belong, under any stretch of the imagination, in the hands of the populous. So the point of my story is this. Everyone should have a gun to protect themselves and their loved ones. It is the right of every person to do just that. Any one found, including those once issued to carry such a weapon ( the murderer was not in case you are wondering), should be prosecuted to the extent of such an atrocity as there is no feasible reason to have that far of an advantage in the name of defense.
    Thats my story and my two pennies, say what you will.
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    Johnny H
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Johnny H on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:34 pm

    Tragic story. I feel for your loss and hopefully the SOB that did the shooting gets what he deserves....death, in my opinion, which still is a far cry from justice.

    Jergens
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Jergens on Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:33 pm

    Okay I will put my 2-cents worth in. I am for the right to self-protection through the means of firearms. But it is my opinion that the bigger picture is often over looked by those liberal cup cakes who believe that everyone has rights and everyone should be protected from scrutiny. The truth is our judicial system is a joke. The fact is today there as many laws protecting criminals as there are for the law-abiding citizens. One of the one reasons we are taxed to death in the United States is due to the Billions of dollars in tax dollars spent each year on criminals held within our prisons. I am sorry but luxury benefits prisoners have such as TV access, telephone access, educational programs for prisoners to get their GED's and some College Degrees is down right shameful. We have hard working, law-abiding citizens today that cannot afford the same advantages as our criminals. I have a step brother that has been in and out of prison all his life. He told me on day that life was too hard on the outside and would do what he could to return. Mind you he was not a Hardened criminal but would get picked up by police within weeks of being released on parole for offenses like public intoxication or petty theft. He would long for prison life, no bills to pay, no job to hold down, and ultimately a life without responsibility.

    It is my opinion that people need to wake up. Criminals should be put back on work details building roads, schools, and hospitals, improving the infrastructure within the US they helped to destroy. Those convicted of brutal crimes should be allowed only three appeals and then to death they go. When I say death I mean old school executions. PUBLIC, yes I said public, executions by firing squad or hanging. The reason I say public is because though it is terrible in the eyes of some to see another human being put to death. There is no better deterant for crime. The funny thing is we could learn a thing or two from some of the Third-world countries. I promise you this if someone you knew lost their hand for stealing you would definately think more than twice before stealing from another. I know most feel we are morrally superior to allow our prisoners to be treated in this manner. But I would ask just one of those people to explain that to the parents of a local 14 year-old girl who was abducted, raped repeatedly, and then her throat was cut. That her abductors should live off our tax dollars for years while the criminals go through apeal after apeal and end up with a reduced sentence because their parents abused them. Please, throw the damn rope over a tree limb and kick the chair. It is my view that criminals should live a life of hard labor and not a life of carefree responsibility. Gun control is just a small part of issues we face today. I honestly believe crime today will continue to increase as we continue to view criminals as oppressed, unloved, having daddy issues, and if they had the childhood we perceive everyone should have (you know like in the movies and on tv) they would not have turned out like this and should be given special concession because hey after all it was not their fault after all. Society made them this way.
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    Johnny H
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    Re: Gun Control

    Post by Johnny H on Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:18 pm

    You nailed a lot of great points Jergens!

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