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    Re-vamping Military Standards

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    Bullpid
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    Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Bullpid on Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:01 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    With the release of 3.0 and all the changes it brought this would be a perfect time to re-work our Military Standards to better fit the times we are now in.

    Le's get everyone's opinion on this and see if/what we want to change.


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    Military

    Post by ambrosiaa on Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:12 pm

    Greeny42 wrote:I like the graduated scale idea that ambrosia has laid out. Granted I currently don't qualify for it. But I like the idea of the graduated scale.

    These were just wild guesses at ranges that I was throwing out. Very Happy Hopefully our leadership can determine what's reasonable.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by truth on Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:16 pm

    I also like the idea of the graduated scale. In addition, I play on the .org server and what my alliance there does is break down the map by players/coordinates and everyone is expected to help protect members in there area. A list of your assignments is generated once a month and distributed through the forums. For instance, There are 6 members close to me and I am responsible for their protection as well they are responsible for mine. In order to qualify for the protection, you must have a minimum general score of 2000.

    What I like about it is I know by name and location, all the players I am protecting, it makes it much easier to track when a lot of attacks are going on and mail traffic is very heavy. I just look for those from my area aqnd read them first. After starting my assistance, i go back and read the other posts.

    Another thing to consider is that all servers are different, a better way to do it might be by say your top 500 overall score would need to be in top 300 general score. Something like this could be done across all servers and does not spell out specific overall scores or military requirements.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Eldracar on Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:19 pm

    -Made- wrote:I propose we ask that members have a certain general score relative to their overall score. Let the individual members decide how to set up their military. As general I can see everyones troops and I feel that it is my job to help members set up proper defenses if they are getting attacked.

    I like this idea.

    under 100k scores should be building dozens of phalanx and should strive for the top 3000 generals
    100k - 150k scores should be in the top 2000 generals
    151k - 200k scores should be in the top 1500 generals
    201k - 300k scores should be in the top 1000 generals
    300k+ scores should be in the top 500 generals

    I think this could work. Maybe we could tweak the numbers a bit, but I think it's a good outline. Generally speaking, I think the simpler, the better.

    Hey Made - how well are people keeping up with the current standing military requirements? I ask because it seems to me that people not bothering with defense at all is more of an issue than difficulty meeting the actual requirements. I don't know how much this may have changed since I was general.

    play on the .org server and what my alliance there does is break down the map by players/coordinates and everyone is expected to help protect members in there area. A list of your assignments is generated once a month and distributed through the forums. For instance, There are 6 members close to me and I am responsible for their protection as well they are responsible for mine. In order to qualify for the protection, you must have a minimum general score of 2000.

    I would love to see something like this in action.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Fact on Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:20 pm

    First Draft of the Military Standards is Up, Please Tell me what you think




    ]These Standards Apply to all GODS COMMUNITY Alliances

    As we Mature as a community we are no longer dictating what units you use in your military. Instead we are basing our military standard off of your total score

    Your General Score Will now have to be (bare minimum) at least 1% of your Total Score.

    So say you are running around with 200,000 Total Score, Your Generals Score will need to be at least 2,000

    if you would like to Find a Good Military Makeup for your play style Visit this Link : Military Comparison For v3.0

    As Well, In Our Community, We expect all members to be active, and being active means helping the Alliance in the time of need, So We are now using, a Squad System.

    Each Squad will be Comprised of 6 Players. Each Player is responsible for protecting and helping the other 5 members (everyone helps everyone in the group) for Military aid or Economic aid.

    To Qualify to be in a Squad you Must have at least a 1,000 Generals Score.

    For Squad Responsibilities Please Follow this Link : ::::::

    Squad Responsibilities:

    -Protect/Defend Fellow Squad Members
    -Appoint a Squad Leader
    -Appoint one member of the Squad to Check Spy Capabilities once a Week. Send Info To Squad Leader
    -Appoint one member to Log all Activity for the Week. (each day, each member will have to list progress made, including combat), Send Log To Squad Leader
    -Squad Leader Will Review activity, Spy Capabilities and Report to Your Servers Selected Personnel
    -All Cultural Treaty Requests Should be sent to the Squad Leader (NOT CIRCULAR)
    -All Trades Offers Should be Sent to the Squad Leader (NOT CIRCULAR)
    -Each Squad(Leader) will have an appointed day to Send a Circular

    Ex.

    Squad: Foxtrot

    News:

    The Following Members Are looking for Cultural Treaties

    Fakename1
    UnnamedUser
    UserUnKnown

    The Following Members are looking for trades

    Fakename1
    Wants to Trade His 10,000 Marble for your 10,000 Crystal

    UnnamedUser
    Wants to Trade His 12,000 Wine For your 12,000 Sulfur


    Foxtrot is The Fastest Growing Squadron in the Alliance and Are establishing ourselves as the Economic and Military Superpower in Our Region.


    **Remember The Objective is to Get the trades through your group of 6 first, and then post on the boards. This message sent out once a week by the squad leader will only be if you still haven't received a reply from your squad or from our boards


    Last edited by Greety on Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Military Standards

    Post by ambrosiaa on Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:29 pm

    I'm not so sure the squads thing will work. To be honest, I spend like 2 minutes a day playing this game and that's already more time than I have. Giving people "work" in a game won't go well.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Greeny42 on Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:07 am

    I also agree with ambrosia on this one.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by cerberus on Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:50 pm

    I also think that the squead system sounds like it would be very time consuming. Also, as far as the 1% of total score as bare minimum generals score... This I also have some trouble with, as my total score is roughly 530k but my general score is only 4,800 and I know that I will be continuing to expand my millitary in my 6th town, but my upkeep is staggering even as my populations have nearly completed rebounding. I think that while the 1% rule looks simple at first the reality of it is that as we grow as players it will be increasingly difficult to meet even what would be considered the bare minimum. I am still in favor of the system we used before which was not the best but was meerly ment as entrance minimum requirements and players were supposed to expand their military as they grew to provide themselves proper protection.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Eldracar on Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:45 pm

    Maybe just an updated version of the old system, then?

    As it is, the minimum is 3xTH Phalanx, 1xTH Ballista Ship or the equivalents. Since a defender will get slaughtered without offensive units as part of the garrison, we could add 1xTH offensive ground units and 0.5xTH attack ships. I don't see anyone having a hard time maintaining that.

    Maybe the 1% could be a suggested ideal?

    I know that in most of the cases I've seen in which our people have been pillaged it has not been an issue of the standing military requirements being insufficient; usually, people aren't even close to meeting it, sit on huge stockpiles of gold (before 0.3.0 obviously), and have virtually no spy defense.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by talie on Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:51 pm

    I believe that the 1% of total score is not difficult to maintain in most cases. Obviously if you have a huge total score...it may be extremely hard or not cost effective to maintain a military that high, and possible unnecessary. I currently have around 46K total score and a general score of 933...slightly more than twice the 1%...and although, I still need to make some significant changes to beef myself up, I am completely able to maintain this score and more. I think however the 3xlvl and whatnot is extremely helpful though to help those who need more direct guidance about how to build their military.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Fact on Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:27 pm

    actually even at a high level its fine, i mean at 400,000 its still only 4,000 military which most people carry around when there at about 80k TS

    Please Remember the draft above is just that, and not official, it was placed here to discuss and critique it. all Comments are welcome...... I Will be Starting the Vote On Friday. and the vote will last a week.


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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Johnny H on Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:48 pm

    I agree that the requirements must be simple, The 1% of total score is simple but it does not work across the board, at least in my opinion. At lower levels, 1% is not enough and at higher levels it can be too much as NolanShields stated.

    What about something like this. It is more complicated but still relatively simple and should be easy to implement and to monitor. I believe it allows for relatively appropriate defensive levels as long as walls and hideouts are adequately maintained.

    How about a 3-2-1 program that would work like this.

    10000 to 25000 Total Points Generals Score Must equal 3% of total score or 500, whichever is less.
    25001 to 100000 Total Points Generals Score Must equal 2% of total score or 1500, whichever is less.
    100001 to 300000 Total Points Generals Score Must equal 1% of total score with a 1500 point minimum.
    300001 & Up Total Points Generals Score Must be a minimum of 3000 points (They didn't get this big by not knowing what to do so if they want a relatively small military let them)

    Next we post suggested troop configurations on this site for the various score requirements so that hopefully everyone will know how many of each troop type they need at each score level. (This addresses the research tree and available units)

    Next we have rules for walls and spy hide outs.

    Lastly, we strictly enforce these guidelines. Anyone that is not in compliance should not receive any military assistance from the alliance. Ultimately if they choose not to meet the guidelines after proper notification they should be expelled.

    Just some thoughts.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Yazdyeys on Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:40 pm

    I think that Johnny H has a good idea there. However, we don't want to forget the problem of having an inflated Military Score. I think that the best way to go about this would be to establish a minimum attack and defense amount per TH level. What units make it up is decided by the player. If we do 159 points of defense, without the Resistance ability figured, and 120 points of attack, that should be adequate. I got these figures from 3 phalanxes and 3 archers with no upgrades. If a person invests in upgraded equipment, then fewer troops could be used. I believe that this would give the best flexibility in troop composition, but maintain adequate defense, as well as being simple.
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    Military Standards

    Post by ambrosiaa on Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:02 pm

    IMHO - I have 5 towns with all level 24 town halls. I don't have a problem maintaining a huge army. When I add up all my towns I have the following units with full upgrades.

    1400 Phalanx
    250 Archers
    125 Steam Giants
    50 Doctors
    50 Cooks

    I pretty much ignore sea units, except for 1 in each port. If they want to land, then can go right ahead and get slaughtered. If they want to blockade, that's fine too. I have massive wine stockpiles of around 90k each city. So whatever we decide is fine with me. I just figured I'd throw an alternate requirements system out there.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by -Made- on Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:23 am

    Hey Made - how well are people keeping up with the current standing military requirements? I ask because it seems to me that people not bothering with defense at all is more of an issue than difficulty meeting the actual requirements. I don't know how much this may have changed since I was general.

    The current military standards are being upheld quite well, with most members exceeding it by far. I usually watch out for attacks on our alliance, and will give suggestions to the person being attacked so they can defend themselves better. But it's rare an alliance member gets attacked, which is a testament to our overall strength and dedication towards the military aspect of the game.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by cerberus on Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:10 am

    I think that sycren's ideas on the first page has everything laid out that everyone can follow quite easily, maybe with a few tweaks like what yazdyeys does above. What I mean by that is having a 3x phalanx and 3x archer per TH lvl as a standard which traslates as he says to a 159 pts def and 120 pts off. This allows for a simple standard (for at least me to understand) and one that also allows for room so personal changes can be made to switch out units as upgrades are achieved.
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    Military Standards

    Post by ambrosiaa on Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:19 am

    I agree. I would tend to up the phalanx a little and say maybe 5x phalanx and 3x archers per town hall level.

    That would put a level 20 town hall at 100 phalanx and 60 archers. I don't think that's too outrageous. I'm not sure how effective the doctors are, but you might want to suggest 1 doctor for every 5 levels of TH as well.

    Something else to consider too is making sure people use their Workshop to upgrade these two unit types. I have no idea how many people upgrade their units.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Guest on Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:57 am

    I'm sorry but I disagree. I don't think it is fair to players who have absolutely no desire to be "offensive" to be required to have those military standards. You can mount an effective defense without having 100 phalanx in your army. I would much rather see people investing in the Town Walls and Hideouts, in concert with defensive military units, than just having an arbitrary number of units they need.

    I went along fine with 50 phalanx and 50 swordsmen for a long, long time...never being bothered (except by Yaz) and never being attacked. It is just recently that I've decided that I want a larger military and have grown my generals score to above 3000...but that is because I became bored with what I was doing.

    It is possible to enjoy this game and not make yourself an easy target without a large military, and I'd hate to see us turn into an alliance that only accepts people who are "serious" about things....it'll make for a rather boring assortment of people.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Steven on Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:37 pm

    I usually don't say much on here. I do have a few thoughts.

    I like the idea of having a set number of units per level.
    I also like the idea of a minimum General Score per level.

    We should combine them.

    Then make a layout of what would be needed per level to make up that score.
    25K-50K Points
    Required General score of: 500
    Suggested: 3Phalanx per TH lvl. 1 Gunsman per TH lvl.
    Pillagers: use X (insert offensive unit) and X (insert defensive)
    Non Pillagers: use X (insert offensive unit) and X (insert defensive)

    51K-100K
    Required General score of:1000
    Suggested: 3 steam giants per TH lvl.
    I.E. Pillagers: use X (insert offensive unit) and X (insert defensive)
    I.E. Non Pillagers: use X (insert offensive unit) and X (insert defensive)


    We should graduate it like that. Using the minimum score AND giving an outline of how to achieve it.
    Another way to is to show various plans for each type of player.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Syrcen on Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:09 pm

    TH Standard
    What about 159 defense, 100 offense for land and 34 defense 25 offense for naval?
    This makes 3 phalenx, 3 archers, and 4 phalenx, 2 archers equally viable. I understand some people are pushing for 50/50 unit types but other people seem less comfortable with that split (and I don't think its just me!) It still required some offensive units to be most cost effective...

    Those naval numbers do not match my previous suggestion, (34-35 defense, 30 offense) which required more then one ship to funfill each level. I adjusted that so it could be done with 2 ballista or one catapult.

    I'm still uncomfortable with any Town Hall standard that will cost over 80 gold to run. To be in keeping with the percentage of our old standard, I still feel 72 gold is ideal. I concede that one can afford a bigger military with big towns if they are willing to give more then 1/3 of their gold making capacity to that task. What is affordable for a level 20 town is all well and good, but I'm personally more interested in how a small town can afford to support the standards we set. Pop cap of 60 @ lv 1, 96 @ lv 2. 24 citizens per TH level still seems like enough to me.

    If our minimum standard will require more then 6 land units to fullfull, I do not feel it would be appropriate to increase out naval standard as it would place more of a burden on our members then we previously required. Likewise, I feel that any standard that would require more than 8 land units should not feature any mandatory naval component. I personally feel a slightly better naval standard is an appropriate change to our standards. If a couple of the leaders would clearly state that they feel the naval standard is adequate or unneeded, I would accept that and my answers would change.

    I understand that we're also looking at some other standards, but I feel more comfortable keeping my comments to the town hall standards. I worry that the more complex standards will need more tweeking after they are passed, and that might be hard to do without upsetting people.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Krylo on Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:53 pm

    I've enjoyed this thread since it first started. Seeing everyone's ideals to a military design has been interesting. But it needs to be simple. In my opinion this is basically designed to discourage becoming a target, and not needing to rely on others for military support. So you go with some set guidelines, at least to be considered to join -PoG-. So you have 3 phalanx and one offensive unit per town level, plus one ship (or equivalent). Also have walls and hideouts and same levels as towns. This would be bare minimum to be considered to -PoG-.

    What each player does on Ikariam varies too much to make an ideal standard. This would be where the chatbox would come in handy. Have some members login at a set time with the general so they can pow-wow about what their ambitions are on Ikariam. Do they want to be aggressive and pillage? Peaceful and trade? Mix of both? Once you find out then we can detail their towns to what they desire. Also may want to make some military FAQ threads relating to each desire on here.

    I don't think you can ever reach a happy medium for this, but we want to establish a base line. I've always liked the military score to total score comparison, but you will still lose if all you have is defensive units (watched that happen with a town I pillaged last night). So the best to me is still a standard unit requirement. Then we can tweak each player from there.

    Yeah, that may require a little more time to go one-on-one, or at least to a group, but isn't that what being in an alliance should include?
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Eldracar on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:02 pm

    Well, the main idea behind the standing military requirements is to discourage the random pillager, right?

    When I'm looking for targets to pillage, the first thing I look at is the generals score. If it's 900+, I won't bother. If it's lower, I'll see if I can sneak in a spy. I won't bother with a spy if there is a 95% chance of failure, but generally I'll give it a shot if it's under 70%. What I'd like to know is how common my criteria for finding a target is amongst pillagers; what do you guys go by? Maybe someone could even ask on the Ikariam boards.

    Anyway, my point is that maybe we can figure out what the typical pillager looks at when selecting and attacking targets, and work towards a standard from that perspective. I think that would be the simplest way to do it, because no one is going to want to bother with anything complicated. You can have a good mix of units and make an attacker pay dearly, but the best defense is to not get attacked in the first place, no? So right now I'm thinking of it from a deterrence perspective.

    Edit: Yeah, I basically said the same thing as Krylo, only about 10 seconds later.
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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by yup277 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:02 pm

    I won't bother if it's more than %10-15 failure with a spy. However I will pillage anyone under 3k general score.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by ambrosiaa on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:09 pm

    [quote]I'm sorry but I disagree. I don't think it is fair to players who have absolutely no desire to be "offensive" to be required to have those military standards. You can mount an effective defense without having 100 phalanx in your army. I would much rather see people investing in the Town Walls and Hideouts, in concert with defensive military units, than just having an arbitrary number of units they need.
    {/quote]


    I'm perfectly okay with not having any military standards. I think we should just come to a conclusion on the "recommended" amount. If people don't want a big military, I totally understand. However, I do want to make the point that if someone has an extremely bad military score then the chances of my helping defend that person hovers around 0%. As long as that's clear, then everyone can do what they want.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Guest on Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:38 am

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should NOT have military standards. I just don't want to see them be so outrageous that it kills the fun of the game, especially for those who aren't interested in being offensively-minded players. And I completely agree about helping defend someone who isn't willing to defend themselves...I'm not going to do it and no one in the alliance should be asked to do so either.

    I just believe that helping those members who want to take a defensive stance should be part of our "military standards"...and I believe that can be done without requiring 100 phalanx in every town, etc., etc.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by cerberus on Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:44 am

    "We will also not help those who will not help themselves." direct quote from our current game laws under militay requirements.

    Maybe we should clarrify in more specific, like I think we have in previous bylaws, that those that do not meet the standing military requirements do not get military aid.

    "Your Town Wall should be at least the same size as your Town Hall, this way you get all your defensive bonus from the wall. You should have a Hideout at least 2 levels smaller than your Town Hall fully stocked with spies." Another quote from out laws that I think everyone can agree needs to stay or even make the hideout same as TH lvl.

    I think this tread was started just to address the changes that the new patch has brought about with regards to pillaging, and the ability of everyone to have a larger standing military without detering them from having fun playing. The system that Syrcen used to develop the 4x Phalanx and 2x Archer base is just a representation of our old standard with the understanding of use of citizens for defense. Having this as our standing army requirements is just the same as what our old standard was, but with the new patches pros and cons in mind.

    Remember that these guidlines are just ment as an entrance requirement that hopefully members will expand/beef up when their tech advancements allow.

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    Re: Re-vamping Military Standards

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:10 am